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Any other airlines doing this with interline baggage?

Elk Rapids, Michigan
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Any other airlines doing this with interline baggage?

"Beginning May 1, 2012, Hawaiian will not through check bags to other airline flights unless the other airline segments are on the PNR for which the passenger is checking in.:

Seems like a really bad idea to me. Check in for a Hawaiian flight, check bags, clear security, take a short 20 minute interisland flight, pick up bags, tromp up to the check in counters, recheck with the next carrier (like Delta), check bags, re clear security.

I realize they are trying to get thier baggage fees on in bound flights but this seems like a really bad move and will add a huge amount of time to any flight not on the same PNR...assuming you can even book what you need on the same PNR.

Nashville, TN
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11. Re: Any other airlines doing this with interline baggage?

"this is a NEW rule to HA that takes effect 1 May"

Actually more like clarifying and standardizing company policy across the board. How often do you see the recommendation on this site to ask the gate agent to through check bags when flying on separate tickets? HA is simply letting it be known to their passengers, not to bother asking. They're not going to do it, thereby taking the decision out of the gate agents hands.

Bingley, United...
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12. Re: Any other airlines doing this with interline baggage?

< No problem there, this is a NEW rule to HA that takes effect 1 May. >

I am willing to bet that nowhere in their existing rules does it say you must interline bags if the customer asks for it.

Bangkok
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13. Re: Any other airlines doing this with interline baggage?

Hi,

Alanrow,

< No problem there, this is a NEW rule to HA that takes effect 1 May. >

I am willing to bet that nowhere in their existing rules does it say you must interline bags if the customer asks for it.

==> Assuming the CURRENT online version of their CoC has NOT been amended at this point- prior to the change taking place-- then they DO speak to this, and do so in TWO separate places...

#1) Under the section titled "Checked and Carry On Baggage", Section A(3)(b) they say this;

"Baggage will not be checked:

beyond the passenger's next point of stopover or, if there is no stopover, beyond the final destination designated on the ticket."

Hawaiian CoC:

hawaiianair.com/Aboutus/contract-of-carriage

So that wording speaks to it very directly. The other part of this is that HA, like most airlines, does not include EVERYTHING that the passenger may be liable for..

As example, HA does speak broadly to things that will get you removed from a flight, but it does not specifically mention interference with a flight crew member-- a violation of FAR 121.580-- and that can and will get you removed, but HA does not mention this directly in their CoC.. they only incorporate it via a larger 'blanket' statement about disruptive conduct.

#2) In HA's Coc there is a also a general paragraph under the same Checked Baggage section title that says this;

"Carrier will check baggage which is tendered by a passenger and which is acceptable under the terms of Rules 190, 195 and 200, upon presentation by a passenger of a valid ticket for transportation over the lines of HA, or over the lines of HA and one or more other carriers, subject to the conditions specified below."

A part of Rule 190, which is a baggage-based rule, states in part that the carrier shall not be liable to and for baggage beyond the last point shown THAT ticket.

IATA rules are not public domain instruments as IATA is not a public entity, so access to their Rules database is restricted to members, but several carriers do re-post most of the rules into their larger CoC's..

Frontier does this rather well, and you can read the full text of Rule 190 from their CoC here (page #21)

http://www.frontierairlines.com/~/media/Files/docs/Contract_of_Carriage.ashx

Travel Safe,

Chicagoland
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14. Re: Any other airlines doing this with interline baggage?

We have been flying AA to HNL, then on to OGG for many years -- luggage checked through. The HA policy has been pushed back to take effect June 1. In speaking with AA, they have NO IDEA about this change. Nor does TSA. AA says thay cannot put our HA flight on one ticket, although we booked the HA flight through them.

It will be a ZOO at HNL airport when huge numbers of passengers arrive HNL from the mainland US and must claim luggage; take it to HNL; go back through TSA security again before boarding flights for the other islands. We may also have to have to put luggage through agricultural screening. What Fun for passengers and TSA and airport personnel!

How long do you think it will take us between arrival HNL and departure to Maui?

IMO this is all about HA's bottom line. They want those luggage fees.

Nashville, TN
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15. Re: Any other airlines doing this with interline baggage?

"AA says thay cannot put our HA flight on one ticket, although we booked the HA flight through them."

Note that it says one PNR (record locator) not one ticket. Depending on the number of segments, there may be multiple tickets issued for one PNR. These are commonly called conjunctive tickets and usually run in sequence.

If you booked you HA flights as a part of your trip in conjunction with your AA flights, they should be on the same PNR (the itinerary on the AA site would have one PNR (record locator) showing all flights on both airlines) and the new rules should not apply. However, if you booked your AA flights and HA flights as separate bookings (different PNR's (record locators) for each airline on the AA site), the new rules would apply.

Edited: 17 May 2012, 08:46
Bangkok
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16. Re: Any other airlines doing this with interline baggage?

Hi,

ChiSue,

"IMO this is all about HA's bottom line. They want those luggage fees."

I think this is PART of it, but not ALL of it..

Interlining doesn't happen in a vacuum..

A part of establishing an interline agreement with other carriers is agreeing who and how much of the interline handling costs (the costs to physically move the bag between the two separate carriers and is usually handled by one airport-wide contracted provider)..

So, by carrier A, improperly interlining bags to carrier B, carrier B really is paying a cost that they really should not have to..

The other part.. Claims..

I've worked my carriers airport-level baggage claims/service office (probably the hardest airport-level job there is) and I will tell you that all to often a passenger walks up, bag tag in hand and no bag.. BUT.. when you look further into the matter, you realize that the original carrier (let's call them carrier A) actually interlined it improperly and against agreement.

So, now I have to tell the passenger that while s/he traveled on us, the terms of baggage regulations are that your bag was improperly tagged by carrier A and as such carrier A needs to address it... We will work with them, but in the end, the claim rightly goes to and if necessary, must be paid by carrier A.

That is ALWAYS and ugly conversation-- but it is supported by facts..

So, I can also see points that by HA moving to what really IS common industry platform and practices, not only do they get their share of revenue-- no doubts there's a revenue piece in there-- there is also some cost controls and even better compliance with what really is the industry standard and for most carriers, is also their agreement that carriers like HA would have signed on to.

Travel Safe,

jack.
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17. Re: Any other airlines doing this with interline baggage?

Chi -

Did AA say why they cannot put all the flights they booked for you on one PNR?

Chicagoland
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18. Re: Any other airlines doing this with interline baggage?

AA has issued a ticket that lists the ORD-HNL portion, and our return from OGG to ORD. There is no mention on that ticket of HA #516 OGG-HNL. That is on a separate ticket.

I have called AA. They are unaware of HA's new refusal to interline baggage. I have called HA. They insist I will have to claim and recheck at HNL.

When I booked, no one told me about this.(How could they; AA 'didn't know'.) I learned it on the TripAdvisor Hawaii forums. NOW AA says they couldn't put it all on one 'because #516 isn't one of *their* flights on HA'.

Nice try, GOPBI, but it's ALWAYS about the money. If this is long-standing policy why wasn't it in effect all along?

Bangkok
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19. Re: Any other airlines doing this with interline baggage?

Hi,

ChiSue,

"Nice try, GOPBI, but it's ALWAYS about the money. If this is long-standing policy why wasn't it in effect all along?"

Thanks for the acknowledgement.. The reality is that it IS about several things.. and yes, money IS one of them..

Part of the issue is the process and details about interlining are largely invisible to you, as the passenger; but they are there..

As far as "If this is long-standing policy why wasn't it in effect all along?" goes, the reality is that like many aspects of travel, what is WRITTEN may not always be what happens, is enforced or otherwise..

Cases in point might be carry-on or cabin baggage.. All US carriers have to have a policy (it's part of their required FAA operators licensing process).. but as many of is know, the actual ENFORCEMENT of these policies can be radically different from airline to airline, city to city and even day to day..

This is a good example of why I personally am a big fan of consistency.. Do the same thing at all stations across your network so that the passenger knows and can plan for what will or will not happen.. Otherwise it becomes some game of randomness or guesswork.. Will they do it for me in XZY? They did it in ABC, but not DEF.. so.....?

As far as HA's move.. I suspect-- and without knowing directly from the source.. that is HA themselves-- that there's multiple reasons.. As you guess.. and I agree... to a point.. there is a economic motive... but I will also tell you, and those that are in and on the administration side of an airline can also tell you, that inter-airline agreements are something that carriers watch for compliance..

A common example of this would be the improper transferring of tickets from carrier A to carrier B, outside of the terms of the agreement in place.. For example, some carriers don't accept discounted business cabin tickets from other carriers... so if airline A "pushes" a business ticket from A to B, and A's ticket is a discounted business fare, that violates the agreement that A and B have with respect to transferring of tickets..

Much the same way with interline bags.. There are costs to move bags between carriers.. and while probably not a "top 10 cost" per se, in today's cost-control environment, any cost that is not justified or proper comes under the microscope.

... and as I mentioned, the claims issue.. by improperly interlining bags you DO set up a ugly and confusing scenario for a passenger IF their bag is not delivered at the destination as the norm is "last carrier".. but with an improperly interlined bag, that "last carrier" now becomes less clear and the confusion sets in.

Again, is it about revenue (i.e. bag fees)? Absolutely.. and no doubt that's the big, if not the biggest part,...but it is NOT the ONLY part.... by going this way, HA really does address multiple issues... lost revenue opportunities, better interline bag cost controls, and better more consistent claim management administration.

Travel Safe,

Edited: 19 May 2012, 08:12
Pembroke Pines...
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for Doral
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20. Re: Any other airlines doing this with interline baggage?

I had this last month when Jet Blue did not check my luggage on my following flight with Cathay Pacific. Jet Blue said they have no agreement with CX so I had to take my luggage on JFK and check it again on CX. Nonsense, but what could I do? Lucky I had enough time between two flights.